As a Christian, I have a little issue with Jim Marrs as he is anti-religion. But I don't want to get into a religious conversation, so I will leave it at that. He is an extreme conspiracy believer, most of which I can agree with such as the government dumbing down America, just look at the government education system and the reduced standards each year (normally pinned as social equality). The control of the media and fossil fuel dependence is a no-brainer (why not government subsidies for solar cell production like they do for refineries). But I believe that this is perpetrated by independent elite families. Elite want to stay elite and keep others down. I don't believe that most of this is connected through history by a genetically superior group.

I can't believe that we are alone in the universe, but I have to believe any group that arrives must be of nomadic quality. I don't think that technology can overcome certain "laws" of physics. Therefore galactic travel will take many generations or a being of extreme lifespan. Therefore I believe that if they arrive here, they will be advanced enough that they are not going to just crash or pay a visit to a farmer just to see whats-up. Nor will they make a wheat field into an art project or pictures in the sky. Think of yourself finding a lost tribe much less advanced than yourself. I would either make myself known or gather knowledge and resources and stay hidden. Therefore sightings would be possible.

Our existance may be from some of these nomadic travelers that stayed behind to live a "waldeneffect" life as their families moved on. An empty thriving world would be inviting if your existence was confined to nomadic space travel.

Anyway enough of my beliefs for now, as I could go on all day but thanks for keeping me thinking. I look forward to continued discussion.

Thanks for the comment Erich.

I would be very curious to hear some specific examples of Jim Marrs being anti-religious. I have not read any of his books yet, the main source of his information I know of comes from his many interviews out there, but to me he comes off as an old school journalist who like you say seems to be spot on with his critical statements on the dumbing down of America and media control.

I feel like there may be some truth to your nomadic space family hypothesis, and I would say the controlled media has been conditioning the public for some sort of statement on this subject in the near future. The Vatican has been very suspicious in recent statements concerning their chief astronomer Reverend José Gabriel Funes and what he calls "space brothers". You don't have to dig too far in our past history to see how corrupt the Catholic church has become over the ages and therefore deserves closer scrutiny.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/world/europe/14iht-vat.4.12885393.html

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts on this subject. Yes...a religious conversation might be messy, but I feel like a fair examination of the facts will require a stand on the many areas that religion has dominated for several hundred years now. Surely a faith with a strong foundation can withstand a little disagreement with some heart felt discourse?

I appears that I must recant my earlier belief about Jim Marrs. After doing a half a days research trying to find exact quotes to give you, I come up empty. Actually he doesn't talk about beliefs much that I can find, only distrust of organized religion. As this is a distrust that I can share and has proven itself viable. Especially with the history of the Catholic church. It would seem that I mistook this. Others even claim that he is a christian but I cannot find where he has stated this himself. As far as religion, I believe in a creater. I cannot allow myself to believe that everything is just an numerical circumstance. What amount of involvement our creater had is up for debate. I have no problem with evolution. We all know that viruses evolve in short amounts of time and that animals must evolve to match the enviroment and circumstances. Once again just look at human transported species. But I believe in the Bible and therefore believe that we were created not evolved. That does not mean that we haven't evolved since creation. Look at the tribe of giants in Ohio. I believe in the Virgin Birth, the life and death of Christ and His Resurrection. I am open to debate on this subject and am willing to explain my beliefs. Also thanks for introducing me to Peter Levenda.

Thanks for taking my challenge on the Marrs material. If journalism was filled with professionals like him I may have not dropped it as a major in college.

I pretty much scrapped most of my belief system when I discovered how much deception is involved in explaining the 911 event and how deep the mystery runs.

Recently I've gained a new found respect for the old testament as a historical document, although I find it very hard to understand due to the language. One conclusion I've drawn lately is that the teachings of Jesus was effectively hijacked by powers like Constantine and Paul and used to gain control over the masses. I think any fair examination of the Bible must also include the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hamadi Gnostic texts. Material that is very dense and I'm just now beginning to explore.

The virgin birth and the resurrection I can live with....it's the concept of original sin that I reject. I'm thinking the story of Adam and Eve has been distorted for some perverse meaning, but of course I can't prove it.

I'm not really sure if belief even matters in the grand scheme of things. If it does I can't help but to believe the most sacred thing we can do is be the most authentic self we can be and do it as much in the moment as possible.

Thanks again for the discussion. I don't get the opportunity often in my neck of the woods here and I appreciate your open mind.

Please understand that I am not a theologian. These are my personnel beliefs, backed-up only by my experiences, understanding and research.

Imagine that your first girlfriend burned you really bad, every girlfriend you had after that point would have to earn your trust over what the first girlfriend did to you. This is my best explanation of the original sin for me. It is a hard point to discuss as it is a belief. Not that it matters, I believe I can safely state that we all have our own sins therefore we all still need forgiveness. Those that are not aware of God's word are innocent as a child in his eyes.

I am not sure what conspiracy surround 9-11 could make you give-up your beliefs. Please elaborate. God allows man to make decisions. Whether these are good or evil. These decisions effect others. He can't stop all innocent people from being harmed as this would cause decisions without consequences, which is no decision at all. Natural disasters are harder to accept, except for once again He lets our lives play-out as they will.

The Bible is proven time and time again to be accurate. Time lines, places, and people that where once just accepted because they where in the Bible but couldn't be proved have since been established by archeology and science. It is a text that was passed down by God and therefore needs no additional documents. Not saying that they are not relevant but just redundant. For sifting through the mass of information in the Bible, "The Message" is an interpretation of the original text not a word for word translation. It is easier to read. You can always go back and compare to which ever translation you prefer.

I am enjoying this discussion. It has my wife and I debating and forces me to think out my beliefs in order to put them into words. I can easily be a social recluse and enjoy this outlet.

I have often heard of these instances of proof, but most of them seem somewhat soft...meaning it's open to interpretation. I would be curious to hear just one of these facts that seem to be on solid ground.

Most people accept the King James version of the bible. Is it not possible for a King and other men of power to edit such a text if they felt it was in their best interest? It would only take a few words being moved around to totally distort what was originally intended not to mention the difficulty of translating the languages.

This is where the heart and intuition can be useful if the individual has been able to gain control over the mighty Ego. One should be able to use the Christ consciousness or Holly spirit connection to discern what is real and what might have been fabricated or altered. Again this is open to interpretation and can sometimes be muddied by the Ego. My connection tells me to go within and avoid the many trappings of modern day Judeo-Christinaity. The new trend of Super Churches offends me greatly and I can't help but to wonder how disappointed Jesus would be if he were to return and see how his teachings have been used to justify such extravagance.

The parable of giving ones shirt to a neighbor who has no shirt means to me that instead of building such a grand place to worship....might we build a more modest church and give what's left over to the hungry and poor? How many homeless families could live in such a huge building the other 6 days of the week?

Losing some of my beliefs after 911 is not so easy to explain. It was the beginning of my quest to live a more simple life without as many distractions. I guess the main component of this revelation is my amazement at how many smart, educated people out there refuse to even look at the most basic of facts relating to that day. I think it's this flavor of denial that has allowed the distorted image of Christianity to go unchallenged for so long. Ultimately it's our Ego's trying desperately to hang on to our comfortable idea of reality. This is just my opinion, but has lead me to many unrelated topics that further strengthen my resolve that we have been mislead. Perhaps this is what is referenced to in Revelations when a false prophet or Anti-Christ will be on the scene? Maybe our current state of Christianity is just that...an incomplete version designed to maintain a tight control over the people?

Thanks again for having the courage and taking the time to honestly reflect on this. I may still be attending Sunday morning services if my fellow Christians had such an open mind and true desire to find some truth on your own without being hand held or spoon fed.